Golden Gate Depot Harriman 2.0 Update for July 2025

So, as I expected, GGD has updated some of the offering reservations when they got some of their paint and lettering artwork ready to release.  So I'm adding some of the screen-shots of the updates off Sunset/GGD/3rd&TownsendModels' website.

77-D-3/4 DINERS

GGD's 77-D-3/4 Diners announced 20250701

Well, this is a treat.  So five paint schemes!  I'm going to crop and zoom in to see what I can see for car numbers.

GGD artwork for SP 10116 Two-Tone Gray Diner

SP 10116 - Two-Tone Gray - This looks like the later TTG, as in the General Service TTG scheme of 1954.  It has the car type "DINER" in large letters below the reporting marks and car number.  These cars are interesting for SP passenger train operators because they were used in many of the remaining SP's HW passenger trains into the early 1960s which weren't converted to Hamburger-Grill service.  My Painting Graphic shows that the SP 10116 was one of the interesting Diners, being painted into TTG in February, 1947 and a repaint in February, 1956, then lasting until retired in 1957.  The 10116's sister, SP 10010 lasted in the TTG scheme into November, 1960!

GGD artwork for SP 10006 Simulated Stainless Steel Diner

SP 10006 - Simulated Stainless Steel - Aluminum & Red Stripe, Gray Underframe - This is the typical post-1958 General Service scheme.  According to my Diner Painting Graphic, three SP 77-D-4s were repainted into this scheme in 1958 (one in April and two in August).  The SP 10006 lasted until February, 1962, making it the longest lived arch-roof Diners not converted to Hamburger-Grill service!

GGD artwork for SP 10507/10513? Daylight Hamburger-Grill

SP 10507? or 10513 - Daylight Hamburger-Grill 1956 or 1955 - I'm sorry but I can't quite make out the lettering on this car.  It could be either 10507 or 10513. 
The 10507 was converted earlier, but painted TTG for about a year before being repainted to Daylight scheme in June, 1956.  The SP 10507 is kind of an interesting car as it shows up in the 1957 Farewell to Steam trip over Donner Pass behind the SP 4274's last trip of an excursion behind a cab-forward.  As many modelers have various manufacturers models of the 4274, this would make a nice consist to run on layouts of Donner Pass.
The 10513 was already painted in Daylight scheme as a diner since June, 1950.  It was then out-shopped as H.G. in June, 1955.  My research doesn't show when it was repainted into Yellow, but I'm guessing around May, 1958 when the H.G. SP 10512 was retired and it was painted Yellow at the time.  The SP 10513 lasted in Yellow until November, 1961.

GGD artwork for SP 10115 (?) Daylight Protection Diner

SP 10115 (probably) Daylight Diner 1947+ - No date or car number's clearly stated on this offering yet.  I'm guessing that the second Daylight painted Diner is SP 10115 or 10117.
The SP 10115 would make since as the SPH&TS Vol.4 Dining Car book shows it was repainted Daylight in 1947, but not a specified month.  I'm guessing it certainly could have been the next diner coming out of repair and getting repainted after the devastating Kingsburg wreck of February, 1947, where a gasoline truck was hit at 45 MPH in a grade-crossing collision.  Amazingly the SP's two LW full diners, SP 10200/10201, weren't in the consist that day, but the SP 10150, a DOG HW Diner, a 77-D-9 clerestory protection car.  However, the Coffee-Shop SP 10400 was in the train that day, and it was badly burned out in the resulting fire.  I'm not sure how long the SP 10400 was out of service, while it was being repaired, but it's fair to say that the SP 10115 stayed in Daylight colors quite a while, at least through April 1953's list in SP Trainline No.116, Summer 2013, pg 44.  I'm guessing, SP 10115 lasted in Daylight colors until it's conversion to Hamburger-Grill in May, 1955.

The other car that could be done is SP 10117, which was painted into Daylight in June, 1950 for the San Joaquin Daylight protection service.  The 10117 was in Daylight in April, 1953.  The 10117 was converted to Hamburger-Grill in June, 1955 as SP 10513 (discussed above).  Given that GGD has announced the SP 2929 in Daylight, I hope that the Daylight Diner is going to be the SP 10115 from 1947 as well. - On a personal note, I like this option better, as a modeler of the 1949 San Joaquin Daylight, I look forward to having the chance to get a pair of HW protection cars to model other versions of the train.

GGD artwork for SP 10112 - Diner - Overland Yellow scheme

SP 10112 Overland (Yellow) Diner 1957 - This is another "late" scheme, the SP repainted four HW Diners from the 77-D-3/4 series to SP Yellow scheme for service on the Overland.  A fifth car was repainted into SP Yellow to cover for one of the original four yellow diners being retired.  The SP 10112 was repainted in May, 1957 and remained in yellow until it was retired in September, 1960, which I believe makes it the longest lasting of the SP Yellow Diners.  A couple of the Yellow Hamburger-Grills lasted into 1961 and 1962.

GGD artwork for SP 10107 - Diner - DOG scheme

SP 10107 - Dark Olive Green, 1946-1958 (General Service) - The majority of the 77-D-1/3/4 class stayed in Dark Olive Green until converted to Hamburger-Grills in 1955.  The cars not converted to H.G. or retired earlier, lasted into 1956-1957 before being repainted into other special schemes (listed above).  SP 10008 and 10103 actually lasted into 1959 still in DOG before being retired.  SP 10107 lasted into February, 1958.  Considering most of the SP's HW Diner fleet was retired in 1954, and even assignments on the remaining HW trains, such as the Owl, lost their HW food service cars by 1956, there weren't many assignments left for DOG Dining cars by that time.

75-CS HW LOUNGES

GGD's 75-CS Lounges announced 20250701

Ok, this is the other group of cars that I've been very interested to see.

SP 2929 Daylight 2/1947 - I'm guessing that the 2929 was repainted in the scramble to get replacement cars for the Kingsburg gasoline truck wreck of the San Joaquin Daylight in February, 1947.  The lightweight SP 10311 was out of service for 11 months until it was brought back into service in January, 1948 as a full Tavern.  The comment until "about 1/49" is interesting.  I went back through the SPH&TS Vol.5 book, and see what GGD means, I think, there is no detail of when the car was taken out of Daylight colors, but there is a photo of the 2929 in January of 1949 back in Dark Olive Green (DOG).  So, I'm guessing that the Daylight paint could have been repainted back to DOG after the SP 10311 was returned to service, or maybe the 2929 lasted in Daylight until sometime later in 1949.  I guess the best thing to say about this car is that it is up to the modeler to imagine when the car came out of Daylight colors.  I'm not sure how the San Joaquin Daylight's Tavern/Lounge was covered when the SP 10310 was rebuilt in 2/50.  That date overlaps when the SP 2920 was painted into Daylight, and SP 2920 lasted in Daylight into at least April 1953 Premier Painting chart in SP Trainline No 116 pg.44, Summer 2013.  Sadly the 2920 is not suitable to be modeled with this GGD offering, as the windows were different.

SP 2931 San Francisco Lounge 5/1937 - An interesting choice.  Some of the 75-CS Lounges when out-shopped in 1937 were assigned to the SF Overland with special lettering for the assignment.

SP 2933 Golden State 1947-1953 - This is one of the more famous premier train protection assignments for the 75-CS Lounges.  It certainly is one of the most striking paint schemes with the whole upper part of the car painted Daylight Red to match the 1947 Golden State scheme.  The SP 2933 would be used when one of the SP's LW Golden State 83ft Lounge cars was in the shops.  Sadly this scheme only lasted into 1953 before the powers that be in SP Passenger Dept, a.k.a. Russell, pushed for a simpler scheme with better longevity and consolidation of the protection equipment between the Budd Sunset Limited and the Golden State Limited trains.

SP 2938 Dark Olive Green - 1946-1958 - This is the general service scheme for the era.  Most of the SP's HW Lounges were in this scheme.  A number of these cars were still painted in this scheme when the cars were retired still wearing the DOG scheme.  This scheme is one of my favorites for DOG cars, with the larger "LOUNGE" lettering directly below the car's reporting marks on the car side.

SP 2940 Two-Tone Gray - 8/1954 - And this is the replacement general scheme for all SP HW cars in 1954.  Some of the 75-CS Lounges were repainted before they were retired.  From photos, it looks like the SP stopped putting the "LOUNGE" car type lettering under the car number and put the smaller "LOUNGE" at the ends of the letterboards.

72-O-1 SMOKER-OBSERVATIONS

GGD's 72-O-1 Observations announced 20250701

Oh, I like this version of the announcement with notes of what cars are planned.

O-WRR&N 1590 - this is the last scheme that the Oregon - Washington Railroad & Navigation Company observation wore before it was converted into a coach in 1943.  I wish I knew a bit more about O-WRR&N and how they used this car.  It would also be interesting to know more about what happened to the O-WRR&N's passenger trains relating to the curtailment of the lounge and observation cars and also the discontinuance of many secondary passenger trains in January 1942 due to the war.

SP 2804 & CP 2902 1913-1917 - the early SP lettering scheme with the car number only over the trucks.  I'm not sure how many modelers will be surprised how elements of this lettering plan resurfaced in the SP's June 1946 scheme, but with the reporting marks centered on the car-side.

SPL 2807 & (SPL) CP 2903 1917-1924 - the later SPL lettering scheme with reporting marks over each truck, this would be the scheme before these cars were rebuilt to 77-D-2s between 1921-1924.  This is the pre-1928 version, which has the subsidiary's reporting marks.  After 1928 the SP consolidated the whole of the Pacific Lines under the SP's reporting marks.

SP 2901 TTG 1946 - interesting, looks like this is marked as "Fict" so GGD is recognizing that this is a fantasy scheme.  The model looks good for anyone really wanting to have a TTG observation car.  Prototypically, the SP really only had the post-1930 observation cars, which were clerestory cars, that lasted into the TTG era, which started by reusing the numbering series at SP 2902.  So, I can see how an offering of the SP 2901 would work to try to shoe-horn this fantasy car into the rest of the SP's numbering system.

IN CLOSING

As not everything on the GGD website's drop-down ordering menu is shown in these announcement artworks, I'm guessing there's still more on the way... (?)  If there are, I'll come back to this blog-post and break down the artwork that is announced.

Jason Hill

Related Articles:

SP Passenger Car Statistics - (Part 1) Dining Cars (1930s-1950s) - More in-depth car-by-car research on the SP's HW Dining Cars (data-roster info from SPHTS Passenger Cars Vol.4 book), with extra assignment data from various sources.

SP Passenger Car Statistics - (Part 2) Lounge Cars (1930s-1950s) - More in-depth car-by-car research on the SP's HW 'Full' Lounge Cars (data-roster info from SPHTS Passenger Cars Vol.5 book), with extra assignment data from various sources.

I'll do a Part 3 of the SP Passenger Car Statistics blog series on the prototype history when I see a bit more on the GGD 72-C-1 series coaches.

SP Diners 1937-1960 Timeline Graphic of SP Paint Schemes - A chart for a more visual formatting of the SPH&TS Passenger Car Vol.4 Dining Car data.

Changing Plans for SP HW Diner Kitbashing Projects

For about 25+ years I've been on the hunt for an economical way to model SP's vast fleet of HW dining cars.  What I wouldn't have given to have been able to get into the well researched SP dining car information in the mid-1990s that we have now.

SPH&TS's fabulous Vol.4 on Dining Service Cars.

Thankfully, today we have the excellent research materials provided to the prototype modeler by the SPH&TS's publications.  I'm going to be chewing on some deep dive data from this book here, and we'll see what we can apply to the models on the market today.  

Where to begin?  I've not been focusing on passenger train modeling for about 7 years now, shifting more to my new home layout on the SP's Jawbone Branch.  However, I thought it would be fun to turn back and look at several of my stalled passenger car modeling projects.  These are mostly "in-process" to kitbash the critically missing offerings of SP dining cars to the 'budget brass' and plastic modeling community, but cars I've not finished.  Usually I like to blog about projects after I've finished them, or are at least high on my modeling priorities "short list".  Today I'm breaking that 'rule' and we'll be looking at some messy models and some hopefully not so messy research!

SP Dining Car Painting and Lettering Graphic for 1937-1960

In this blog I'll cover a couple of the projects that I've had in process for 10-15 years.  I'll be using my new Diner Timeline chart for the car's history that I'm discussing... so expect to see excerpts from this chart.

Soho Brass 77-D-3/4 Diners

The problem with the legacy "Budget Brass" Soho 77-D-3/4 from the early 1980s is that it is a period model for the as-built version of the 77-D-3/4 cars, without air conditioning and with transom windows.  Both of these features were changed in 1937-1939 when the cars were air conditioned.  

Left side of John Ruehle's rebuilt Soho Diner

The Soho cars have been the 'budget brass' benchmark for an arch-roof diner for the last 45+ years.  Unfortunately there are some errors baked into them on the right side aisle-side windows being the same spacing columns as the other parts of the car, the prototype car should be a bit wider columns.  That's going to be impossible to change on this model.

Right side of John Ruehle's rebuilt Soho Diner.

John's sent me this diner several years ago.  He has done a fine job starting his kitbash, his underbody detail work on this car is excellent.  The window blanking is keeping the transom cross bar, which is too low to my eye.  

Left side of my brass-bashed work from 15-20 years ago.

So on my body kitbash (below) shows that I remove the cross bar, and put in smaller filler pieces.  Both of these models need major work on the roofs to detail them for an air-conditioned car.

Right side of my incomplete brass-bashed body from circa 2005-2010.

One of my Soho 77-D-3/4 shells that I have been tinkering on and off to change the windows for about 15+ years now, but that is a very involved kitbash.  So that has stalled that project route.  The roof A/C details would also have to be fabricated and would be a fairly involved project itself.

Let's stick a pin in these Soho 77-D-3/4s for now and look at what else has been in the works...

Rivarossi HW Diner Kitbash

Another project I started about 25 years ago was kitbashing a Rivarossi HW Diner into one of the later 77-D-6/7/8/9 or 79-D-1s.  The car-sides are very much a signature ATSF-style features.  So without huge amount of very precise cutting and modifications this route is problematic.

SP's Clerestory Diners of 77-D-6/7/8/9 and 79-D-1 classes timeline with painting and notes.

Most of the SP's clerestory diners aren't of much interest.  In fact by the 1940s they were the older A/C'd diners in the fleet, being upgraded last in 1932 and 1935/36.  By 1940 their A/C systems were marginal with the new Waukesha systems being installed on the later 1937-1940 conversions, which incorporated the new "Daylight"-styled Art-Deco interior designs of 1937.  In general that's why these cars tended not to receive the upgrades to keep them in premier service on the new trains like the Lark,  SF Overland and Golden State Limited of 1942.  Only one was painted into Daylight colors to operate on the San Joaquin Daylight in 1946.  All of these cars were quickly retired once the SP removed the 'third rank' over-night intercity passenger trains in 1954, being retired within 10 months of one another, the 1930-built 79-D-1s only lasting until the end of 1955.  Needless to say, these cars filled in the majority of the SP's lower-ranked HW Pullman trains after 1937-1940, such as the Oregonian, Klamath, Argonaut, Apache, Californian, Challenger, Coaster, etc. until their discontinuance and saw heavy use during WWII and Korean MAIN train assignments into the early 1950s.

These cars can be of interest to us prototypical modelers.  The four main cars of these classes are of interest are the three cars painted in Daylight colors for the San Joaquin Daylight, and the fourth is a standard DOG car (10150) which was substituting in for another Daylight car when the SJD was invovled in a serious wreck, but more on that in a moment. 


The Daylight Shuffling!

Let's have a closer look at what the SP was up to with the Daylight protection pool during the 1946-1951 era.

The SP 10148 was one of the cars assigned to the Summer 1946 San Joaquin Daylight which allowed for the consist to be split at Lathrop and connect with the Sacramento Daylight.  The reinstatement of the Noon Daylight pulled the 1939 pair of Triple-unit Diners out of San Joaquin Daylight service and put the two 1937 Daylight Diners (SP 10200/10201) back in the San Joaquin Daylight assignment when they're not protecting the Daylights on the coast.  The SP 10400/10401 Coffee Shops provided the other half of the triple-unit's service on the SJD for the 1946 consist.
The loss of SP 10400 and the 10311 Coffee Shop-Tavern in the Kingsburg wreck with a gasoline truck in Feb, 1947, required a rapid reshuffling of the SP's Premier Daylight-painted Diners and Lounge cars.  This pulled the 77-D-4 class SP 10115 into Daylight colors and also brought the SP's HW Lounge 2929 into Daylight colors as well to form the protection set of equipment for multiple months while the two severely damaged cars were repaired.  The SP 10310 returned as a full-Tavern after 11 months, releasing the SP 2929, which was repainted back to DOG by 1949.
It is interesting that the wrecked SJD consist wasn't using a second Daylight painted Diner, but only the 10400 Coffee Shop car, instead of the 10200/10201, the consist had the SP 10150, a 77-D-9 Diner and sister to the 10148.  This makes me believe that at the time of the wreck the SP had only the SP 10148 to protect the SP 10200/10201, and they must have needed to pull the 10150 in as the regular Daylight-painted Diner was bad-ordered on the wrong end of the run to get the 10148 to protect it.  So there's a good chance that either the 10200 or 10201 missed getting burned up in the Kingsburg wreck by only 1 day.
In any case, the SP 10200/10201 weren't very long for th SJD assignment, as just over half a year later they were reassigned in 9/47 to the City of San Francisco.  This reassignment would have left the San Joaquin Daylight with only the Diner SP 10115, SP 10148, and SP 10401 as Diners and the Coffee-Shop-Tavern SP 10310, with the HW Lounge SP 2929 covering the Lounge/Coffee Shop-Tavern assignment.  I'm not exactly sure when SP 10401 was repaired and returned to service.  The next year the SP 10038 & 10040 were repainted for assigned to the San Joaquin Daylight Coffee Shop/Diner pool, allowing more flexibility in the pool to cover the two Daylights on the coast. 
This didn't last too long either as in 10/49 the SP 10200/10201 were pulled out of CoSF service and painted into Daylight colors again to cover the protection of all the Daylight trains., now also including the Shasta Daylight.  Mixed in with this at the same time, the SP 10400/10401 were transferred to the Starlight, as at the same time the Noon Daylight was discontinued, releasing the triple-unit 1939 cars back to the San Joaquin Daylight again.
Through all this, there's no note that the SP 10115 was repainted out of Daylight colors.  In fact, in June of 1950, the 10115's sister 10117 was also painted into Daylight colors!  SP Lounge 2920 was also painted into Daylight protection colors in 1950, possibly by 2/50 to protect the SP 10310's shopping to be converted to match her sister as a full-tavern car.

MDC-Roundhouse/Athearn BB Kitbash

Another option which I did start on in the 2010's was reconfiguring the MDC/Roundhouse Harriman car parts to make an arch-roof diner.

The left side of the 77-D-2 kitbash coming together.

This kitbash actually started as a reconfiguration of another in-process kitbash I was already doing.  The SP's six unique 77-D-2 rebuilt diners, which had strange smaller kitchen window.  

The right side of the 77-D-2.

This whole class during my modeling era were painted in SP's Two-Tone Gray scheme, so my model was stalled for a number of years waiting to be able to replicate that paint scheme accurately.

Left side SP 10096 in basic TTG painting applied in 2016.

I was able to get the right paint and some decals applied, but I'll probably redo the decals with the new sets in the works from OwlMtModels and Todd Osterburg.

Right side of SP 10096 in basic TTG painting applied in 2016.

This car is typical of my kitbashes using Roundhouse/MDC parts, which was a pretty involved project, but eventually could be made into a decent kitbashed model.

SP 77-D-2 painting and rebuild graphic 1937-1960.

After reviewing the new painting and lettering Graphic I posted yesterday, there was actually one of the six 77-D-2s which wasn't painted into the TTG scheme.  However, it was assigned to the T&NO for most of the era I model.  It came back in 1950 as a lounge for a few months, then back to a Diner in 1/51, which I think means it was still in DOG at that point.  The 10094 was the first 77-D-2 retired in 1955.

Given that my 77-D-2 is already painted in TTG as the SP 10096, I'm planning to keep it in the TTG scheme and finish it.

Bachmann-Spectrum AC&F Diner

These cars are definitely NOT SP standard design.  However the El Paso Southwestern cars were absorbed into the SP system in 1924, introducing a number of more typical HO-scale standard passenger car models for the SP prototype modeler to draw from.

SP's ex-EPSW Diners.

Modelers of the WWII era would have a fun time modeling SP 10119 and 10120 as MAIN train dining cars.  The drawings in the SPH&TS Dining Car book show those cars still with their kitchens in place, so I'm not sure what the SP meant by the 'commissary removed' comment.  I think I read somewhere that some cars were used paired up with a full diner, but used more as 'eating space' cars, but not actually preparing the food.

Three ex-EPSW diners survived WWII with A/C upgrades and operated into 1955, all being converted to Hamburger-Grills.  The SP 10123 and 10125 were repainted into TTG, however SP 10124 remained in standard Dark Olive Green until the H.G. conversion in 1955.

Left side of the typical AC&F diner, of the basic Spectrum diner.

The basic Spectrum "SP" Diner is completely incorrectly lettered for SP 10201, which was a 77-D-10 LW Daylight diner.  This car will need a lot of chopping and splicing to change the various windows and reposition them to be more accurate.  I started pondering cuts and window changes with the pencil marks.  As I recall, I also need to shorten the car by 2-3 feet to the prototypical 79ft length.

Right side of a typical AC&F designed car with the door at the far end of the car.

I plan to make my model as the SP 10124 in the DOG scheme, but it will require a number of window repositioning and technically the car should be 79ft long, which will require cutting out a couple scale feet from it's length.

A New Contender Enters the Ring? Golden Gate Depot

With the announcements of pending reservations and production of a plastic 77-D-1/3/4 diner in HO by Golden Gate Depot and Third & Townsend Models, I'm seriously re-evaluating how much more work I want to put into my Soho diners... as they have accuracy issues plus the huge amount of work to refit them to model cars with A/C.

Saved image of some of the Diner offerings from the Third & Townsend Models website, 20250629.

With the forecast of potentially good models of SP Diners, which will be accurate, I'm seriously looking at shelving all of my Soho Diner projects and not trying to 'modernize' any more of them.

SP's 77-D-3/4 fleet service history 1937-1960, including paint and rebuild data.

I'm not showing the history of the T&NO's 77-D-1s, but their history is interesting as well, including some swapping back and forth with leases to and from the SP.

Just looking at the SP's cars before my cutoff in 1953-54, none of the Hamburger-Grill versions are needed for my interests.  The SP Yellow version is a little late for me, however one of the early H.G. conversions was outfitted in 1955 in yellow.

Most of my interest will be in the SP DOG (Dark Olive Green) cars, one of the Daylight Diner versions (either SP 10117 or 10115) and possibly a TTG car.  I have a photo from the SPH&TS Dining Car book that shows SP 10116 in TTG around 1954 cut into the Owl's consist at LAUPT's Coach Yard, behind a ex-SSW Osgood-Bradley chair car.  So it could be a nice way to break up the otherwise mostly DOG consists.  Alternately, the SJD could always use a TTG Diner to mess up the consist's red and orange painted cars.

In Closing

I've put in my reservation for the GGD/TTM cars, so we'll see how they do.  Hopefully they'll be better than the Soho model, and being plastic they should be easier to detail and modify to match the 'snow-flake' details of some of the SP's particular cars.  While the SP's cars generally followed a standard design, the 77-D-3/4s are pushing 25-30+ years old by the 1950s, and had seen at least one full reconditioning rebuild in the 1937-1939 era, and then many received another rebuild to become the Hamburger-Grill cars in 1955 for those that continued into 1960+, so they did tend to start having slight differences with the underbody details, exactly which windows were closed off, grab iron changes, etc.

Jason Hill

Related Articles:

SP Passenger Car Statistics - (Part 1) Dining Cars (1930s-1950s) - More in-depth car-by-car research on the SP's HW Dining Cars (data-roster info from SPHTS Passenger Cars Vol.4 book), with extra assignment data from various sources.

SP Passenger Car Statistics - (Part 2) Lounge Cars (1930s-1950s) - More in-depth car-by-car research on the SP's HW 'Full' Lounge Cars (data-roster info from SPHTS Passenger Cars Vol.5 book), with extra assignment data from various sources.

SP Diners 1937-1960 - Combined Timeline Graphic Including Repaints and Rebuilds

This is a research update for my other SP Passenger car researching.  This is ideally for us to get a better idea of what the SP's passenger roster looked like during our modeling era, so we can better evaluate what models we should be looking for.

It took about 15 hours to consolidate all the data from SPH&TS books into this graphical form. I want to get this data displayed in a better form to show how the SP was seeing their Dining car fleet from the 1937 A/C rebuilds through WWII and the post-war name train's LW diners arriving, then into the 1954 cutbacks in passenger train schedules, and the 1955 Hamburger Grill conversions.

SP Dining Car Timeline 1937-1960 graphical chart - by Jason Hill

THE KEY

The color coding is fairly obvious.  Obviously see other books from the SPH&TS such as SP Painting and Lettering Guide.  This chart is simply meant as another way to see the info.

No color = Standard Dark Olive Green at the time.  During the pre-June 1946 time, this would be "SOUTHERN PACIFIC LINES".  After June 1946 the cars would be getting repainted into SOUTHERN PACIFIC letterboard scheme.  

Light Green = Special (unusual) assignment or lease, but still in SP Dark Olive Green.

Gray = TTG  Usually for Lark/Golden State/Overland in 1942, or General Scheme for HW cars starting in 1954.  Many of the SP's HW diners went to scrap still in DOG, as we can see from this chart.

Red = Daylight  I'm specifying some of the major assignment changes in the notes.  Post-1946 all Daylight cars used the same train logo on the car side.  SP 10200-10201 were used on so many various assignments during their "Daylight Pool" period, it's impossible to list them all on this chart.

Yellow = SP Armour Yellow/Gray scheme for Overland/CoSF.

Red (thick) and Gray (silver) = Golden State 1947 Red/Silver scheme.  Cars repainted to 1953 "Sunset-style" scheme over about 3-6 months for cars still assigned to the Golden State.

Red (thin) and Gray (silver) = Sunset Limited, post-1953 Golden State, & post-1958 General Service (SSS/NSS) Scheme (aka "Tomato Stripe" without black trim on the stripe.

Blue = In Car Shops under repair, rebuild, or awaiting disposition (out-of-service).  Many cars retired or vacated I'm showing in blue until they were sold for scrap (S/S), broken up (B/u), sold off, or converted to MW or other rebuildings.

Brown = Reassigned to MW company service.  (I need to do more research for each car when it was retired from MW service in Ken Harrison's book, but that's for future digging.)

NOTES

Not shown in this list is the 1949 Shasta Daylight cars, as they were regularly assigned and would draw cars from the Daylight Pool to protect them when they went into the shops.

The 1949 83-D-1/2/3 class cars are shown, just to show the effects of them relieving the requirements of as many HW diners after 1954, as the SP cut back on the passenger trains.

IN CLOSING

I will say that some of the SP's earlier 72ft steel diners aren't shown here, mostly because they were either on their way out of front line service by 1940 and I do not believe any received any of the special "Premier" paint schemes after 1942.  I may end up doing something with them in the future, or as some of the cars were converted into Cafe-Lounges , I'll be doing another of these charts for the SP's Lounge cars, which will be its own blog post.

Jason Hill

Related Articles:

Pre-review of the Prototypes for GGD's 2025 Common Standard Harriman Passenger Cars in HO Scale

Modeling Owl (Part 3) & Photo Analysis (Part 7) - Sept 26, 1953 Consist for No.58

Modeling Owl (Part 3) & Photo Analysis (Part 7) - Sept 26, 1953 Consist for No.58

I'm mixing two series of blog posts here, both the Photo Analysis series and adding onto the Modeling the Owl series.

SP 6442 - No58 Horby Sept 26, 1953 Stan Kistler photo - Arved Grass collection

While not exactly the "typical" SP HW Consist, this train still shows a pair of the 72-C-series Chair Cars in the consist, plus both a 77-D-3/4 Diner and a 75-CS rebuilt full Lounge car and the front end of the Mission-series Lounge-Sleeper, running Solarium-Lounge forward, against the dining section ahead of it.  It's a heavy day with six chair cars operating in the consist, pulling a pair of articulated Daylight pool cars in as well.

SP 6444 leads No.58 past the Tehachapi depot in 1953. - Herb Kelso photo, WRMA collection.

I'm not really going to discuss the 4-unit set of dual-service F-units pulling the train between Bakersfield and Los Angeles, as that was typical power for the train at the time.  The SP had several dozen sets of "passenger equipped" F-unit sets, to pull the heavier passenger trains over the mountain districts.  In previous years, later AC-type 'Cab-forwards' or "Malleys" pulled the train over the Tehachapi mountains from Bakersfield to Glendale.  Single Mt or GS-class would take the train north from Bakersfield to Oakland.  At Glendale the road engine would take the train into LAUPT after the point engine was cut-off.

On No.57, the westward train schedule, a single AC-class would pull the train out of LAUPT to avoid the extra charge for multiple engine trains operating in and out of the station.  Then at Glendale a second AC or if it was a lighter consist, an Mt or GS would be added to the point for the trip to Bakersfield.  At Bakersfield, the heavy engines from the trip over the mountain would be pulled off and a single GS/Mt would take the train to Oakland.

Modeling the Consist

Cropped view of No.58 at Horby.

In this photo from September 1953, we can see the following consist:

1. 70-BP rebuilt RPO-Baggage (working RPO, with the catcher arm installed)

Soho 70-BP-30 rebuild (circa 1947-48), just needs some underbody built and trucks installed, plus a few details like the catcher-arms.

2. 70-BP-30-1, probably downgraded to Baggage-Express

Kitbashed downgraded 70-BP-30-1, ex-RPO-Baggage

I've written about this kitbash before.  Originally, I kitbashed the body of this car around 1997-1998 based on a 1933 SP Passenger Car Diagram book reprinted by SPHTS.  I used Floquil's (pretty aweful) Pullman Green and Microscale's (equally aweful artwork) SP passenger car decals to make the SP 5134 RPO-Baggage by combining MDC parts to make a 70-foot.  Not bad for a 17-19 year old's early passenger kitbashing.  We all have to start somewhere, right? 
However, this model stuck out badly when I coupled it with friend's properly finished models with correct SP Dark Olive Green and correct font decals for the lettering.  Then, after the SPHTS came out with their Passenger Cars Vol.3 book, I was able to more properly research the prototypes for these cars.  When I decided to repaint and decal the car, the fact that the RPO door was too wide, and didn't extend up into the letterboard started to bug me more.  I decided that after the repaint, I would instead model the SP 6102, a 70-foot ex-RPO-Baggage.  These retired RPO cars were converted by pulling out all their RPO sorting equipment, turning them into 70-B class Baggage-Express cars.  My repainted model found a new home working as a B-E setout car for many years and creating a conversation with fellow modelers about how this "RPO" wasn't an "RPO anymore!"

3. 70-B-series Baggage-Express

Soho 70-B-series, partly finished

Pretty accurate Baggage car models.  Generally my upgrades consist of new Walthers Trucks (which roll better than the original brass trucks or often worn out Central Valley trucks, and new diaphragms, plus painting and decalling.

4. Baggage-Dormitory car (14-single bedroom car 3500/3501)

My 3503 kitbash of the 1954 pair of ex-12-1s, the Bag-Dorm ex-14 SBR cars are more complicated to find/expensive.

The SP only had four of these ex-sleepers, customized Baggage-Dorms reconfigured in 1953 and 1954, and a few mid-train Lounge-Dorms left from the early 1930s, such as SP 3208.  After WWII several ex-Army Hospital cars were rebuilt with minor exterior changes and interior reconfiguration into similar Baggage-Dorms, but those were mostly used on the Overland Route.

Walthers 14-section painted as a 'Pullman Pool' "Tourist" Car, once assigned to the SP-UP Challenger service.

My other option to model a Domitory car is to pull a "Pullman Pool" 14-section 'tourist sleeper' in place of the reworked SP Baggage-Dorms. A 13-section (ex-12-1 sleeper) or 16-section Tourist car could be pulled in as easily.

5. Chair Car (72-C-1/2/3/4 type)

Golden Gate Depot's upcoming basic 72-C-series coach.

I'll have to modernize the as-built 72-C-series chair car with air-conditioning.  This should be a fairly easy modification.  Mostly removing roof vents and scrounging new A/C units for mounting on the underbody, maybe a water tank, etc.  Some of the GGD cars look to be a little light on the underbody details, but that can be very hard to replicate as SP didn't really have a 'standard' on how they did the A/C conversions on dozens of different cars, so each car can be different from it's sisters.

6. Chair Car (72-C-1/2/3/4 type)

Probably one of the cars rebuilt into Parlor for the Pearl Daylight, then refitted into News-Agent configuration.

A friend's SP 2082 ex-Parlor/Lounge, which by 1937 was upgraded to a Deluxe Chair Car with News Agent space.

I have two of these Soho cars to finish up... maybe I'll get to them before GGD does these cars in the future, but I wouldn't hold my breath!

7. Chair Car (73-C-1) - clerestory Chair Car with A/C added.

SP 2337 is a standing for 73-C-1 using a Walthers "Paired Window Coach".

I've covered this conversion in my blog on the 73-C-1 Kitbashes from the Walthers Coach.

8-9. Articulated Chair car from the Daylight pool.

MTH Articulated 1941 Chair Car

Minor modifications to MTH Daylight Artic Chairs to correct letterboard font with new decals, etc.

10. Chair Car (ex-SSW Osgood-Bradley "American Flyer" car)

Prototype photo, credit to Jim Lancaster for posting it

Notice that even in this prototype 1953-54 photo at Mission Coach Yard in Los Angeles, this "American Flyer" car is sandwiched between a 1937 Daylight articulated chair car to the left and a TTG HW diner to the right, just as in the Consist photo at the top of this post.

It is too bad that Rapido didn't get enough reservations to produce their version of the SSW/SP Osgood-Bradley chair car 10 years ago.  I did pick up one of the E&B plastic kits about 5-6 year ago, which will be quite a bit of work to put together and bring up to current modeling standards, but it's about the only option out there on the market.  I should note that some of these SSW cars that came west, retained their SSW Daylight paint scheme, complete with typical SSW silver roof treatment.  A couple years ago I could have also picked up a pair of second-hand built-up E&B Valley Osgood-Bradley cars painted in SSW Daylight, but passed on them, due to their build quality and finish, which I would have had to re-work, probably scrapping their decent paint job.  Oh well, for now working on the fresh E&B Valley kit is one of those projects that I don't need to do, but can wait a bit longer before tackling.

11. Diner 77-D-3/4

Golden Gate Depot, planned for late 2025 release.

I've waited many years for a good plastic model of an SP Diner.  I'll be writing a review when the new GGD cars arrive, I've ordered one for my Owl and West Coast consists, plus one of the Daylight-painted ones, which will allow them to rotate in and out of other assignments too.

Starting point of a Soho car.

For years I've slowly worked to convert a Soho brass model of the as-built version of the car to an air conditioned and modernized car.  Unfortunately, the baked in errors in the windows are rather annoying and the required changes to the windows removing the upper transom windows to update the car to properly replicate the post-1937 rebuilt cars with air-conditioning is really difficult to do.  With the prospects of a ready-made accurate plastic diner with air-conditioning, I'm likely to shelve the Soho model.

12. Lounge 75-CS rebuilt

Golden Gate Depot, planned for late 2025 release.

Trying to kitbash a 75-CS full lounge would be one of the most complicated prototypes to attempt, which is one reason I never planned to do one.  The prospects of a new accurate plastic model is very exciting to me, in terms of being able to complete the Owl and West Coast consists I've been working on for 20 years.

Seasonally, the Owl would drop the full lounge car and only use the Mission-series Sleeper-Lounge car.

Around the Hill & Out of View

Remaining cars are out of sight around the hillside would be the standard Pullmans associated with the Owl during this time.

13. Mission-series Lounge-Sleeper 

Walthers 'stand-in' for "Mission"-series 6-2 (bedroom)-Lounge, shown before fixing the letterboard.

While unique on the SP, the two Mission-series Solarium-Lounge-Sleepers found a home on the Owl for many years until their retirement to SPMW service in 1956.  My Walthers 'stand-in' for Mission Delores current is not 100% accurate on the windows, etc.  I have a second body, which I may spend the time to kitbash into a more accurate Mission-series model.

14. STD 10-1-1 Sleeper

SP Prior Lake, kitbashed Walthers STD 10-1-1 Sleeper, shown before fixing the letterboard.

While Atlas has released their Branchline 10-1-1 sides, I started by converting a Walthers 12-1 with kitbashed window inserts.  It mostly now just needs some of the regular interior detailing of sunshades and safety handrails in the aisle areas.

The 10-1-1 is among the last of my SP cars that still have the incorrect Micro-Scale font, which I want to have corrected by upgraded letterboard decals to more correct ThinFilm sets.  Most of my 12-1s need to be upgraded as well.

15. STD HW 8-5 or STD LW 6-6-4 Sleeper

SP 9162, starting with a Walthers UP 6-6-4 relettered to SP.

I have a brass car sides kit for a HW 8-5 sleeper to build one of these years.  So for now I get to the choice of one of several SP LW 6-6-4s.

16. STD 12-1 Sleeper

SP Juana, Walthers STD 12-1 Sleeper

The Juana has received the upgraded ThinFilm decals on the letterboard.  It mostly now just needs some of the interior detailing of sunshades and safety handrails in the aisle areas.

17. STD 12-1 Sleeper

PC Coronado,Walthers STD 12-1 Pool Sleeper

One of my "Pullman Pool" 12-1s, which can also be used when I want to backdate my consists to before Dec 1948 when the Pullman Pool was broken up and sold to the railroads.  The Coronado mostly now just needs some of the interior detailing of sunshades and safety handrails in the aisle areas.

18. STD 12-1 Sleeper

SP Los Angeles, Walthers STD 12-1 Sleeper with tail-gate marker, shown before fixing the letterboard.

Since 2019 my models of the 12-1s besides Juana and the 10-1-1 Prior Lake have been receiving upgraded decals for their letterboards and car name, replacing the old incorrect Micro Scale artwork lettering.  Given that it's been over 6 years and my modeling has changed focus to the Jawbone Branch, I'm not sure when I'll get around to finishing up the Pullman cars.  Perhaps with the new GGD Diners and Lounges on the way, I'll get some motivation to finish fixing up these sleepers.

In Closing

SP 4352 & AC road engine with No57 near Glendale - Eddie Sims Collection

Even with most of my modeling efforts for the last 5 years being focused on the SP's Jawbone Branch, I'm still happy to discuss modeling historical passenger trains.

Jason Hill

Related Articles:

Modeling the Owl (Part1) - Post-WW2 to Korea

Modeling the Owl (Part 2) - Korea to 1960

Modeling SP Trains Nos.55 & 56, the Tehachapi Mail

Super-Index of Night Owl Molder blog posts by topic

Modeling Clerestory SP Chair Cars (Part 1) - SP 1050 - Using a Walthers Paired Window Coach

SP 1050 Coach (Part 1) - History of SP Coach & Chair Cars - Kitbashing an Ex-EPSW coach, with Walthers Paired Window Coach.

Modeling Clerestory SP Chair Cars (Part 2) - 73-C-1 SP 2337, 2344, 2346 - Kitbashing 73-C-1 class cars with Walthers Paired Window Coach

Pre-Review of Golden Gate Depot's new V2.0 Harriman Cars for Late 2025 - Hopeful look at prototypes for the 77-D-1/3/4 Diner, 75-CS Lounge, and 72-C-1/2/3/4 Coach/Chair car models and their prototypes.