SP Passenger Car Statistics - (Part 2) HW Lounges

Keeping in the theme of research blog-pages with more passenger car information, this will be the post on the SP's Lounge Cars and Observation Car classes.  Like the Dining Cars of Part 1, the SP's involved history with Lounge Cars will require some deeper diving in this post to untangle their histories.

SP 2933 (Plan 883) was used on Golden State (Red/Silver) HW Lounge Protection car, Steve Perry collection

The main push to post this page is to fill in more of the background and put into proper historical context the new Golden Gate Depot 75-CS 1937 rebuilt Full Lounge Cars.  To do that, we need to go at least 40 years earlier and pick up the story there.

Club-Baggages, the Beginnings of the 75-CS-Series

Before the turn of the 20th Century, the SP had followed the accepted trait of running a combine car at the head-end of their trains to handle the basic baggage not shipped ahead of the premier Pullman transcontinental trains on the mail trains, combined with a moderately sized 'Club' space for business men to talk and make business connections... with the bonus of getting thoroughly soused with booze, liquor, and spirits along the way to properly 'lubricate' the dealings.

SPMW 740 right side, ex-wooden Baggage-Club, retired to SPMW Sacramento-based Supply Train office car. - Tony Johnson Photo Collection (cropped)

These "Palace" cars, such as Roundhouse-Athearn have produced as 80ft truss-rod models, evolved in the first 10 years of the 20th Century into all-steel cars and classified as "75-CS" with sequential classes 1 through 4 being built.  However, by 1930 these Baggage-Club cars were becoming logistically and socially unacceptable on the SP.  The all-men "Club" cars were replaced by the 'mixed company' "Lounge" designation spaces, allowing women to enjoy the facilities on the train too.  The SP meanwhile was wanting to find a way to make these new "lounge" spaces more flexible in their trains than running between the head-end and the first Pullman car only.  The SP already had observation cars, which served as lounge space, but as the SP really pushed back on by 1950, if the car was a Pullman sleeper, then any lounge drink money didn't go to the SP, but to Pullman!  The SP wanted it's own lounge-space, and resulting liquid revenue which wasn't going to be co-opted by the Pullman Company's sticky fingers.  The result was the push by the SP for the 'mid-train' lounge car.  Often this could be placed next to the dining car, and on some smaller train consists, the two would be combined.  In other cases the lounge could take about 3/4s of the car's floor space, and the remaining part used as non-revenue 'crew dormitory' space in the mid-train.

SP 3078-3080-series cars, used in 1930's 'Pearl Gray' Daylight scheme, two of which lasted into the 1950s on the Sacramento-Oakland passenger trains Senator and El Dorado.

The last two (SP 3078 & SP 3079) of the 75-CS-1 cars remained in regular SP service until they were upgraded with A/C and other modernization in 1940 for assignment to the Sacramento-Oakland trains on the Cal-P route.  The rest of the Baggage-Club cars were all upgrade to various forms of the 75-CS-type "Lounge Cars" by 1940, with the last five technically becoming more of "Tavern" cars, as I'll cover below.

75-CS "1930s" Full Lounge Cars

A technical note on the SP's nomenclature before we dive farther into the history of these cars.  During rebuilding of cars to totally new plans SP will drop the serialized class number so "75-CS" is the proper class designation for these Lounge cars, as the 75-CS-1/2/3 etc was dropped when the cars were rebuilt in 1935-37, they certainly could be referred to as ex-75-CS-2 or -3 cars, but that somewhat confuses the previous arrangement with the baggage section and the full lounge versions.  Due to this possible confusion as the cars are rebuilt to such levels and to various extents, I'm going to be using SP Plan numbers to identify exactly which version of the car I'm talking about.

Because just using the car classes don't really apply anymore after the rebuilds, As of 2024, I'm not sure what GGD's plan is with these cars... originally and in the photos they still show an early 2916-series Full Lounge rebuild of the 75-CS series cars. - But they also clearly show plans for the un-rebuilt 75-CS-2 Baggage-Club cars which were rebuilt into the 75-CS full lounges.  Note that "Club" cars were men only, and "Lounge" cars were general use spaces.  This is one of the main reasons that "Club" cars fell out of favor after the 1920s and early 1930s.  Hopefully, clarification will come from future updates on this question from GGD website. - Update: in the 2025 update CAD renders, it seems they pivoted to making plans to do the later 1937-rebuilt 75-CS cars, as seen in the picture of SP 2938, below.

Here's the completed custom model of SP 2938, which I did about 10+ years ago with a TCY brass model. (TCY model was for a client, so not my car to use in my Owl/West Coast consist.)

The 75-CS Full Lounges were generally in two main groups, and either one would be a great addition to the SP intercity passenger consists. The first group of 1930's rebuilds retained the lower windows and the transom arrangement, like the early SP Harriman 60ft coaches. The later group of cars had the windows fully replaced with "High" windows. There were also some cars in between these two larger groups which had various window changes and configuration changes internally which would not be good models for mass production in plastic RTR.

Both my HW Owl and West Coast should have one of these cars. Other standard DOG HW intercity passenger trains in the 1937-1954 era should have one of these including Beaver, Klamath, Argonaut, Californian, etc

The originally planned 75-CS-series rebuilt cars as full lounges were regulars on most of SP's intercity trains from 1937 into the 1950s and the end of HW passenger trains on the SP (circa 1956). The early cars (SP 2916-2924) retained their lower windows with transoms above, which were painted over it seems. 

I will also be noting which cars are "Oddballs".  My definition of oddballs is a car or cars which are very much in the minority design or Plan configuration, which does not account for the majority of these cars.  The following roster data is what I've gleaned from SPHTS Vol.4 and some photo notes.  Unfortunately I don't have any photos of Plan 880 cars that I can share here.

Plan 880, 9 cars
SP 2916 - Green2, Leased to T&NO 894 7/50-5/58, Vac'58 & scrapped
SP 2917 - Green2, set up as Aux Diner, numbered to 10602 (1st) 8/43-7/46 returned to Lounge, TTG3 '46, retired '57 sold scrap
SP 2918 - Green2, (retained transom windows - painted over '40 & 46 in TTG), TTG3 - "Golden State" letterboard '46 (pg 163), retired 4/56 to SPMW 3789 at El Paso'57
SP 2919 - Green2, (retained transom windows - painted over '43)
SP 2920 - Green2, Daylight '49 (Photo pg 167 in 6/53 in Daylight), TTG3 '55 retired '57 (Note Transoms on 2920 were fully plated over when in Daylight colors).
SP 2921 - Green2, - set up as Aux Diner, numbered to 10603 (1st) 8/43-7/46 returned to Lounge, Leased to T&NO 895 7/50-5/55 (Photo pg 164 plated transoms), convert to TNOMW 563 in 9/58
SP 2922 - Green2, - set up as Aux Diner, numbered to 10604 (1st) 8/43-5/44 returned to Lounge, Retired 11/55 to SPMW 2960 at El Paso
SP 2923 - Green2, - set up as Aux Diner, numbered to 10605 (1st) 8/43-5/44 returned to Lounge, Wrecked on Rock Island 10/49 & retired to SPMW 7027B 7/52
SP 2924 - Green2, - set up as Aux Diner, numbered to 10606 (1st) 8/43-2/46 returned to Lounge, Retired 5/55 to SPMW 2104 Bayshore 10/56.

The 9 cars of 75-CS full lounge cars (SP 2916-2924 series) were for intercity HW trains in a mix of green, TTG and even Daylight during the era most modelers will be interested in (1936-1956) and many lasted past 1954 in service. Five cars were converted during the war to "Auxiliary Diners" to provide more eating space for troop train movements and special trains.

Oddball Cars

Plan 879 & 881 similar but with windows rearranged to 880 except they had single 30" window at blind end, instead of at partition. 2925 & 2926 Plan 879
SP 2925 - Green2,
SP 2926 - Green2,

Plan 881 removed the barber space and expanded the mid-car lounge from 15 to 19 seats.
SP 2927 - Green2,
SP 2928 - Green2, (Photo 165, LA'53 Dark Olive Green with painted transoms in place)

1937 Plan 883 High-Window 'Second Group' Cars

The 7 high-window cars of Plan 883 in the 2932-2934, 2937-2940 series would fill in another good group of cars, including a Daylight painted car in 1947 and may have stayed Daylight into 1952 and then was lease to T&NO for four months, then back to the Pacific Lines. It is unclear what the paint scheme was on the T&NO and when it returned to the Pacific Lines, but the 1953 Premier Train (special painted car) Roster (Published in SP Trainline) of HW cars doesn't show anything other than SP 2920 in protection service for the San Joaquin Daylight.

SP 2933 (Plan 883) was used on Golden State (Red/Silver) HW Lounge Protection car, Steve Perry collection

Plan 882 - Return to 15-seat mid-car lounge space account stewardess room for SF Overland assignment, but replaced toilet in SW corner with locker (no window in 882) - All with high windows, same as Plan 883
SP 2929 - Green2, (High windows '49) Daylight '47, to T&NO 896 in 5/52-9/52, Vac 5/55 Sold scrap
SP 2930 - Green2, (High windows '46) TTG3 '4/46 for SF "Overland" Letterboard, (not sure of paint during 1950s after Overland went mostly to SP Yellow, may have remained SP TTG standard circa 1954?) retired '57 scraped 10/58
SP 2931 - Green2, (high windows '46 pg 163) TTG3 '4/46 for SF "Overland" Letterboard, returned to Green 4/50, Retired 1/57 to SPMW 4177 at El Paso. - High Windows '37

Plan 883, Rebuilt for Sunset Limited 1937 had barber shop.
SP 2932 - Green2, to Plan 877 31-seat Dorm-Lounge 3/46 (blanked NE dorm wall windows), Barber space reassigned steward space '51, TTG3, retired 3/59 scrap (pg 171 photos & plan 877)
SP 2933 - Green2, (High Windows) - set up as Aux Diner, numbered to 10607 (1st) 8/43-5/44 returned to Chair Car, then to Lounge 12/47 and upgrade to Golden State protection car, painted Red/Silver scheme (pg 166 with high windows), then to Simulated Stainless Steel in 4/53 (photo pg 168 '57 Fresno on SJD), retired 3/58 & scrapped
SP 2934 - Green2, TTG3 photo 11/54 pg 167 serving as instruction car before retirement, retired 8/55 to Instruction Car 115 9/55 - See Business Car book

Oddballs Again

Plans 884 & 885, Rebuilt with only Buffet, no barber shop - both of these cars are "odd-balls"
SP 2935 - Green 2 - Plan 884 rebuild for Cascade (kept large 54" windows, burned El Casco CA 9/51, retired 9/52, to supply car SPMW 598 12/53
SP 2936 - Green 2 - Plan 885 Cascade rebuild (small windows, like SP 2918-series, but 30" window at blind-end, not mid-car) - (photo pg 169 '57 Fresno on SJD), retired 2/58 scrapped

Second Half of "High Window" Lounges

Example of later 75-CS (Plan 883) conversions with high windows from TCY brass model which I finished for a customer about 10 years ago. (TCY model)

Later conversions of 75-CS cars to full lounges dispensed with the original transom windows completely and used full height windows from the lower belt rail all the way up to the letter-board.

Plan 883, with Barber Shop (like 882 cars) for Sunset Limited '37
SP 2937 - Green 2, setup as snack-lounge service for "West Coast" (Nos.59/60) in 5/50, relieve car for SP 2946 on Del Monte, TTG3 8/56 (photo 172 '59), retired 11/60 and scrapped
SP 2938 - Green 2, setup as Aux Diner, numbered to 10608 (1st) 7/43-2/46 returned to Lounge, Retired 2/58, restored 8/58 (photo pg 172 '59), retired 5/60 and scrapped
SP 2939 - Green 2, TTG3 (no date given), Green2 6/9/50, fitted with old Lark Club seats in 1955 for service on Imperial (Photo pg 169 '57), retired '58, to clearance car SP 123 12/58 - see business car book
SP 2940 - Green 2, TTG3 8/54 (re-upholstered interior and doors) photo pg 173 '59, retired 11/64 - Very long lived car!

Converted 72-C-1 "Lounge" Cars

In the 1928-1932 timeframe five 72-C-1s (SP 2080-2084) were converted to more deluxe Parlor service cars for the new "Daylight" which was painted in Pearl Gray paint with black lettering. 

Soho kitbashed SP 2082, sadly the aisle-side windows shouldn't be raised.

These new higher class day-time 'reserved seating' cars were fitted with single sofa-parlor chairs instead of the standard coach paired seats.  The cars were also fitted with a small bar-drink station in one corner of the main seating area, the windows behind the serving bar were raised, and the windows on the opposite side were kept low with a safety bar to form a short section of Aisle-way.

After the 'Pearl Gray' Daylight assignment was discontinued during the Depression, the cars were left set up as Parlor Cars, which the SP was never a big fan of 'Parlor' car service, aka first-class, day-time sitting cars.  

In 1937 the SP decided that the 'Parlor' cars really weren't going to work in general service, deciding instead to push for long distance sleeper patrons to enjoy the leg-room of dedicated Lounge spaces in the train for social gatherings and to escape the 'cabin fever' of the sleeping compartments.  The open sections of the more economical sleeper passengers was in effect 'parlor' space which could be turned into sleeping spaces at night.

All this to say that the five cars were upgraded with air-conditioning and now converted to 'full lounge' arrangement.  This wasn't very hard to do, outside of the mechanical upgrades to the car and upgrades to the lighting and interior walls, ceiling and carpets, typical of the upgrades of this era.  The cars were renumbered as SP 2941-2945.  They simply replaced the parlor chairs with the standard lounge chairs, which the other lounge cars on the SP used.  Three of the cars (SP 2942, 2944, & 2945) received nurse-stewardess spaces at the opposite end of the space from the bar.

The Oliver Millet - the Last of the Oddballs

SP 2454 - Del Monte with 70-BP-15-4,5,6 RPO-Baggage and SP 2946 "Oliver Millet" second in the consist, followed by 60ft coaches/chair cars. - Credit to on-line poster with a "spicy username"

SP 2946 - in 1938, another of the original Baggage-Club 75-CS series cars was converted, upgraded, and renumbered to SP 2946.  Which was another "odd-ball", with wider windows, similar to 2935 and more reminiscent of the windows on the streamlined 1937 Daylight cars, assigned service on Del Monte for most of its career.  Several years later, the car was also given the name "Oliver Millet", in honor of the car's regular steward, who worked the car nearly every trip, and became familiar with the regular patrons of the Del Monte, with it's single consist.

While this car is "famous", realistically most of us aren't modeling the Santa Cruz Branch,  If someone is modeling the Del Monte, then SP 2937 (Plan 883) was the regular protection car which was planned to swap out when the "Oliver Millet" was in the shops.

SP's 1940 HW "Tavern" Lounge Conversions

Kitbashed 75-CS "Tavern" SP 2976 for protection Lark service, built from MDC/Athearn parts.

The last of the SP's conversions of the original Baggage-Club cars were the five HW "Tavern"-style Full Lounges in 1940.  The SP skipped the car numbers between SP 2947 and 2975 for some reason, probably lost to history at this point.  As a result, these five new 1940 conversions were placed in the SP 2976-2980-series.

SP 10315, 79-T-1 Tavern from MTH, before correcting letterboard to longer SOUTHERN PACIFIC format.

These cars also broke with the open-style interiors of the SP 2946 "Oliver Millet" and preceding lounge cars.   Instead, the SP 2976-2980 were rebuilt to mimic the newer interior styling of the 77-T-2 and 79-T-1 Tavern Cars of the Daylight styling of 1938-39 with the large semi-circular bar in the center of the car and 8 tables off to both ends of the car, but in a HW carbody. 

The 2976-2980 were originally fitted out and painted for a mix of Dark Olive Green (2976, 2979), while the 2977, 2978, and 2980 went directly into TTG SF Overland assignments.  These HW Tavern conversions were assigned to trains like the SF Overland and a fifth protection car (2976 in 1941) for the newly streamlined Lark consists when the articulated Lark Clubs had to go in for servicing.

Over the years, some of the cars were stored during WWII.  In 1952 many of the cars received new interior color design, based on the SP's Apricot pallet.  The SP 2976 was temporarily transferred to the T&NO for a time in 1955.  In February 1956, the SP 2980 was repainted Daylight colors for protection tavern service on the San Joaquin Daylight, although by that time the regular TTG painted cars were regularly seen on the SJD in the late 1950s.