Review - Golden Gate Depot (Part 3) - 60ft Harriman ADL

Last year, in August 2016, with much chatter on the various groups about the pre-production publicity photos on Golden Gate Depot's website announcing five newly tooled Harriman Passenger Car models in HO and O-scales.  In the 'Golden Gate Depot's New "Harriman" Cars - Thoughts on the prototype cars' blog I covered the prototype information on the various models that Golden Gate Depot were announcing via their photos of other models.

Golden Gate Depot's new "Harriman" passenger cars in HO scale

A couple of weeks ago I received an offer from Golden Gate Depot to do a review for this blog of the five (5) carbody styles using a set of six pilot models.  Golden Gate Depot is offering these cars for sale both in a 6-car set (reviewed here) and single cars.  The MSRP $539.95 for 6 car set and
MSRP $89.95 per car individually.  All of the cars reviewed are painted in the Southern Pacific (SPG) Dark Olive Green with Delux Gold lettering, which is correct for cars painted after June 1946.  Some car types are offered with up to six different numbers applied.

I will be using the Southern Pacific Historical & Technical Society Passenger Car books, Volumes 1 (Coaches & Chair Cars) and 3 (Headend Cars - Baggage and Railway Post Office), and photos of other models from various manufactures as references relating to prototype measurements and details.  ** I do not consider myself to be one of the "True Experts in SP passenger cars", because other than what I've read in the books listed above and other publicly available information used to gauge these models by I don't have any extra resources than any serious modeler of the SP and passenger equipment of 2012-2017+ should have.

In 'Review - Golden Gate Depot (Part 2), I briefly looked over the 60ft Harriman 'Business Car'.  In this review I'll be taking a close look at the Golden Gate Depot All-Day-Lunch (ADL) car,

History of All Day Lunch Cars

The All-Day-Lunch cars were a concept that the SP came up with to bridge the gap between a full dining car with china and crystal and the 'News Agent' cars which were a sandwich, coffee, and newspaper affair setup in a small nook or between a couple of seats in the first coach of the train.

Left side of Golden Gate Depot's SP 10519 All-Day-Lunch car (60-C-4 rebuild) - Note the "high window" at left end.

The first, and easiest way to pick out an ADL car from other 'normal' coaches is the conversion of the first South East corner (SE) wide window to a 'high' kitchen style window, normally found on dining cars and cafe-lounge cars.  This upper pane was able to be opened and food-stuffs passed through into the pantry and kitchen spaces of the car.

The SP 10519 was originally a 60-C-4 coach which was rebuilt as an ADL in 1930 for the premier service on the heavyweight Daylight train (painted Pearl Gray) running between Los Angeles and San Fransisco.  This Daylight in Pearl Gray was repainted during the depression in standard Dark Olive Green, and then resurrected in 1937 as the Daylight panted in the brilliant Red, Orange, and Black scheme.

Golden Gate Depot  60ft 'Lunch' car #4

A total of 25 ADL's were converted in 1929 and 1930.  These cars were assigned to name trains such as: Pacific Limited (Nos.19/20) 3 cars, Fast Mail (No.9) 1 car, Salt Lake (No.10) 1 car, Oregonian (Nos.13/14) 4 cars, West Coast (Nos.15/16) 3 cars (Sac-Portland), Klamath (Nos.7/8) 3 cars, Daylight Limited (Nos.71/72), San Joaquin (Nos.51/52) - 2 cars - Heavyweight train - not the Daylight version, Sequia (Nos.57/58) 2 cars, Governor/Bay Cities Passenger (Nos.30/209) 1 car.

Here's the Pantry-Kitchen compartment on the GGD model. - I would probably open the car and paint the kitchen silver.

The cars had a small kitchen-pantry space set up in the "West End" of the car.  The window (usually on the SW corner of the cars of 60-C-3 and -4) was converted to be a kitchen-pantry style window allowing direct loading through the window into the partitioned kitchen-pantry of food items.  - A modeling note here: SP usually had stainless steel appliances and fittings in the kitchens.  I did not attempt to open these sample models to see how hard it would be to paint the interior, but it would be one of the things I did to upgrade the model to my usual level of detail and finish.

In floor Plan 951 (March 1937) on Page 66 of SPH&TS SP Passenger Cars Vol.1 used on the SP 10511, 10512, 10513, 10516, 10519, and 10520 (renumbered from SP 1834, 1838, 1839, 1855, 1860 and 1861) shows the floor plan that I believe most closely matches the GGD model.

In 1935-37, 13 of the ADL's were downgraded to News Agent cars.  This left 12 ADLs in service.  Two of which (SP 10517 & 10518) were equipped with air conditioning in June and July 1937 and were assigned to regularly work on Trains 71 & 72 between Los Angeles and San Fransisco until WWII.

Air Conditioned ADL Cars - SP 10517 & 10518

These are the modifications needed to fix the GGD model to be correct for the SP 10517 or 10518 with Air Conditioning.

Only the 10517 and 10518 were rebuilt with AC, which also involved the removal of the roof vents and installations of extra roof vents for the AC systems.

Both SP 10517 and 10518 received Air Condidtioning in 1937 and were used on the Suntan Specials between San Fransisco and Santa Cruz well into the late 1950s.  These cars received floor mounted AC units in a small compartment formed from partitioning off the SE longitudinal seat across the isle from the toilet.  This modification also required a square vent out the carside below the belt rail and the window to be replaced and covered with sheet metal.  Both the 'high' pantry windows were also changed to have a higher lower sill (covering about 1/3 of the total opening).  This modification seemed to be done with many of the SP's Diners and Cafe-Lounges about the same time.

The SW ex-toilet window was also plated over on both cars.  One photo of 10517 still shows transom windows remaining on the other windows in the car.  A photo of SP 10518 shows the car in 1952 with the transoms plated over.

ADL Service Fades Away

By the end of the war in late 1945, only SP 10503 and SP 10512 retained their tables and counter stools.  The other seven cars still in ADL service had them removed and had ice boxes installed in their place.

Dining Tables & Seats. - Golden Gate Depot 60ft Harriman All-Day-Lunch.

Pillow Lockers were also installed between 1947-1949.  Some cars had these in the SW and others in the NE vestibule, the SP Passenger Car Vol.1 lists the cars as SP 10511, 10517, 10518, 10520 in the NE, and SP 10503 and 10512 in the SW.  The doors were removed and sheet metal was installed over the exterior opening.

Second toilets were reinstalled by 1949 in the SP 10503 and 10512 in the SE corner opposite their remaining toilet.  Up to six tables were installed in these two cars in August 1952.  These cars were often assigned to the Suntan Specials and special trains.  In 1954 the 10503 and 10512 were renumbered to 10523 and 10524, clearing numbers for the new experimental HW Hamburger-Grills being converted from HW diners.

SP 10513 was the only ADL to stay with Plan 951 from conversion until retirement, it received the iceboxes in 1945, and was converted to a Express Rider Crew Car in 1953 as SP 2823.  The remaining ADL's probably served in a more limited capacity as a News Agent space until retired.  Between 1953 and 1955 all seven remaining ADL cars were retired and assigned to service as 2800-series Crew Cars.  The last regular assignment of an ADL was on the Portland-Ashland Trains 329/330, the Rogue River in 1949.

SP 10519 - Post-1946

In 1945 several cars (10511, 10513, 10516-10520) were refitted with ice boxes on both sides of the isle in place of the tables and chairs.  Also in 1945 four cars (10511, 10516, 10519, 10520) were fitted with a Aid Station (room) in the opposite end of the car from the ADL compartment for helping passengers sort out travel arrangements, ticketing issues, etc.  A photo of the 10511 in this configuration shows at Oakland in 1952 on page 69 of the SPHTS SP Passenger Cars Vol.1 (bottom left photo).  The photo shows the isle side of the Aid Station, with a safety handrail in place across the second narrow window and first wide window.  Jeff Cauthen was kind enough to contact Steve Peery about the details of Plan 953, which I received a copy of to confirm this information.  The room window (first large window on the "North East" side of the car was shortened to 29.25" keeping the center side framing and blanking the old outer section of the window towards the car end. - I've not seen a photo of the north side of one of these cars in this arrangement, but needless to say after 1945 the SP 10519 would be significantly different looking than even the plain ADL look.

"North" side of the GGD ADL car. - Note, "high window" on this side is NOT correct.

Corrections Needed for "Late ADLs"

For those modelers willing to put in the extra work to model these cars as they appeared after 1945 with the plated over windows they might make nice cars.  However, trying to back date the cars to have the earlier transom windows would also be a major chore.

Correction for Isle Windows for All-Day-Lunches

Here's a closer view of the tables and chairs, and also of the incorrect "High Kitchen" window on the car's 'North' side.

Underbody Corrections

Also the ADL cars had extra gas tanks mounted under the floor as shown here on this PSC brass model.

Battery box and gas tanks under the South side of the car (ADL room to the left end). - PSC model show.

Underframe modifications are more basic, but will include adding the two big cooking gas tanks, one on each side of the Battery Box.  The Battery Box on the GGD car is actually on the wrong side of the car as well.  It might be possible to flip the entire underframe detail molded section around before adding the tanks.  Addition of the tanks themselves shouldn't be too hard to do.  (Note: the PSC model doesn't have the correct 'high' pantry-kitchen window, so that's always fun to add to a brass model.)

Correction for ADL with Aid Station

Corrections to "North" side for  post-1945 ADL service. - The correction at left is only for Aid Station cars.

The "North" side of the ADLs should look more like this with the Aid Station.  The orange correction to the left is for the 1945 Aid Station.  The car as modified for the Aid Station had a second toilet installed at the "East" end of the car, inboard of the Aid Station compartment, using the modified 'narrower' window.  The orange correction to the right side of the car, where the isle is around the ADL compartment is and should be a normal height window with a safety bar across the window.

Removal of several rows of coach seating and addition of interior partitions would also need to be added for the Aid Station.

Roof Issues

Coach seating in the ADL 10519 looks pretty good - but the roof seams are not correct.

Also, as on the coaches and business car the roof panels of the GGD cars are not riveted at the lap-joints, but instead some sort of welded bead is modeled.  Fixing this will not be easy at all.  It stands out compared to the other models that are available on the market.

Conclusion

It is unfortunate that GGD modeled the cars with the errors listed above.  Most of them are really hard things to fix.  I had higher hopes that this unique service car would be available without major rebuilding.

I'll be looking at the 'Review - Golden Gate Depot (Part 4) - Baggage and RPO' cars in the next review.

Links to Related Articles:

Thoughts on New Golden Gate Depot "Harriman" Cars (August 2016 - Announcement)

Review - Golden Gate Depot (Part 1) - 60ft Harriman Coaches

Review - Golden Gate Depot (Part 2) - 60ft Harriman Business Car

Review - Golden Gate Depot (Part 4) - 70ft Harriman Baggage, RPO-Baggage, & Conclusions

Modeling Index of SP Heavyweight Passenger Classes - General index of SP passenger car models.