Models and Kitbashes by NightOwlModeler: Review - Golden Gate Depot (Part 4)

Last year, in August, with much chatter on the various groups about the pre-production publicity photos on Golden Gate Depot's website announcing five newly tooled Harriman Passenger Car models in HO and O-scales. In the 'Golden Gate Depot's New "Harriman" Cars - Thoughts on the prototype cars' blog I covered the prototype information on the various models that Golden Gate Depot were announcing via their photos of other models.

Golden Gate Depot's new "Harriman" passenger cars in HO scale

A couple of weeks ago I received an offer from Golden Gate Depot to do a review for this blog of the five (5) carbody styles using a set of six pilot models. Golden Gate Depot is offering these cars for sale both in a 6-car set (reviewed here) and single cars. The MSRP $539.95 for 6 car set and
MSRP $89.95 per car individually. All of the cars reviewed are painted in the Southern Pacific (SPG) Dark Olive Green with Delux Gold lettering, which is correct for cars painted after June 1946. Some car types are offered with up to six different numbers applied.

I will be using the Southern Pacific Historical & Technical Society Passenger Car books, Volumes 1 (Coaches & Chair Cars) and 3 (Headend Cars - Baggage and Railway Post Office), and photos of other models from various manufactures as references relating to prototype measurements and details. ** I do not consider myself to be one of the "True Experts in SP passenger cars", because other than what I've read in the books listed above and other publicly available information used to gauge these models by I don't have any extra resources than any serious modeler of the SP and passenger equipment of 2012-2017+ should have.

In 'Review - Golden Gate Depot (Part 3), I looked over the new 60ft Harriman ADL car model. In this review I'll be looking at the two "Head-end" cars which Golden Gate Depot has designed for release in HO-scale: the 70ft Baggage and the 70ft RPO (baggage-RPO combo).

Overview

These two models have been missing for a number of years from the HO scale modeler's fleet of SP passenger equipment. Until now. they've only been available in brass (Soho, PSC, CoachYard, etc) or Southern Car & Foundery resin kits. I've been especially looking forward to a nice 70ft SP baggage to fill out several of my consists for the Owl, West Coast, and Tehachapi Mail among others.

Golden Gate Depot Harriman '70ft Baggage' - Battery box side

Because both of these cars use almost identical tooling on the baggage portion, I'll save time and bandwidth by posting the review of these cars together. Mechanically the two bodies are identical with the same 6-wheel trucks replacing the 60ft car's 4-wheel trucks. The couplers are mounted on the same swing-extending designed draftgear as the shorter cars. The underframe is also cast in one-piece as well.

Golden Gate Depot Harriman '70ft RPO' - Left side

As before I'm showing the box ends, it would appear that these cars might be offered in multiple car numbers.

Golden Gate Depot's 70ft Baggage #2 - SP 6475

Golden Gate Depot 70ft PRO #1 - SP 5196

Now that we've seen these overview photos let's look them over more closely.

Harriman SP 70ft Baggage

The prototype SP 6475 was a 70-B-5 class car, one of the 145 or so cars of this length and door arrangement built for the SP, CP, & T&NO. T&NO's preceding subsidiaries also ordered some of this class, which were absorbed into the T&NO before 1930, so I'll just call those T&NO cars. (Side Note: There were other 70-BA-class cars which incorporated an end-door into the basic 70-B-series body design. I will not be covering those here, because this model has solid-style ends)

Golden Gate Depot SP 6475 3/4 end view

My previewing of certain photos that Golden Gate Depot released tipped me off that something was a little weird about these cars. From the photos I was able to figure out that the trucks had been moved inboard from the ends of the car. I'm not unfamiliar with this being a practice of some manufactures to allow for their models to run on very tight radius curves, such as 18" and 22".

Baggage end of SP 5124, a 70-BP-30-2 (left) and GGD 6475 Baggage (right) show how far off the trucks and windows are.

I use the windows near the end of the car to gauge where the trucks centers should be. This is pretty easy to do, as the windows should line up almost centered on the middle axle of the 3-axle trucks, as on the SP 5124 in the photo above. I could see in the preview photos that they're off by about 24", which I figured I'd be moving out and fixing like I've done before on the SP 6102 and many of my other head-end cars.

The coupler boxes on these cars both swing and also extend out from the end of the car as the draftgear is pulled off center. This should allow the car to go around pretty tight curves.

What caught me totally by surprise when I opened the box and pulled the Baggage car out was how short it was! I reached for my trusty scale ruler and measured it over the corners of the car, which should be 70 feet 0 inches on the endsills, which are inside of the ends of the car. In other words, the internal open length of the floor should be 70ft, with the ends and diaphragms extending farther out to about 72 feet 10 inches overall. The model measured out at 64 feet 4" over the corner posts, a full 6 feet short!

In the photo below I've placed a piece of Atlas Code 83 track on top of a Soho 70ft Baggage car (correct length) and squared up the right side with my machinist' square.

Golden Gate Depot SP 6475 (top) and Soho SP 6444 (bottom) comparing lengths. GGD is WAY too short

I've compiled the numbers for the various spacings of the features of the doors and windows for the GGD car against the prototype drawings in both the 'Diagrams Common Standard Passenger Train Cars Southern Pacific Lines, as of March 1933. (SPH&TS Eighth Edition, Oct 1999) and the SPH&TS SP Passenger Cars Vol.3, Head End Cars book, as shown below:

Measurements Prototype Model Error
Car Length - over end sills = 70ft 0in ~64ft 4in 5'8" Short
Length Over All Pulling = 72ft 10in 66ft 0in 6'10" Short
Endsill-to-window = 80.75in 70.8125in 9.94" Short (each end)
Window Width = 29in 33.35in 4.36" Long (each end)
Blank Wall (Window & door) = 13ft 3.75in 12ft 0.5in 15.16" Short (each end)
Door Width = 7ft 0in 6.69ft 3.69" Short (each end)
Center Blank Wall = 11ft 1in 10.16ft 11.08" Short (centered)

I also noticed almost immediately something I'd missed in all the preview photos that I've seen of this car before. There are no vertical rivet rows in the side sheets of the car! Also, beyond that, there's no steps of extra material on the 'belt rails' under the rivets there either. The whole car side is flat, with no relief of detailing at all.

Quickly, let's look at the underframes...

Golden Gate Depot one-piece underframe - no diamond cross bracing.

Above is the GGD underframe, typical of the new GGD cars with only the two needle-beams crossing under the centersill, correct for 60ft cars, but not 69 and 70ft cars. Below is the underframe of SP 5199, with the correct 3 needle-beam cross members crossing under the centersill and also the diamond shaped cross bracing between the outer needle-beams and the trucks.

Southern Car & Foundry underframe with diamond cross bracing.

Roofs?

Golden Gate Depot's "Welded" roof ribs, not prototypes' lapped panels with rivets.

The roofs have the same welded seams that the Coaches, Business Car, and ADL had, which I've discussed before in the previous GGD review posts.

Well, let's move on....

Harriman 70ft RPO

Golden Gate Depot 70ft RPO (Baggage) - right RPO end view

GGD "SPG 70ft RPO #1"

The RPO-Baggage in the set is lettered as the SP 5196, which should be a 69-BP-30-3, the first in a group of four cars (SP 5196-5199).

GGD SP 5196 "70ft RPO #1" Right Side

GGD SP 5196 "70ft RPO #1" Left Side

The model at first glance compared to a 69-BP-30-3 looks quite different, T&NO 141 'Sunbeam' PSC model shown below.

T&NO 141 'Sunbeam' model - PSC 69-BP-30-3 class.

The prototype 69-BP-30-3 class cars are noticeably different than the model is primarily in the GGD's model is only 64'4" over the endsills, which is how SP measures its passenger cars. This is about 3'8" shorter than the 69ft length of the 69-BP-30-3. Also of note is the 7'0" baggage door instead of the 4'10" door of the 69-BP-30-3s. The RPO door also is not correctly placed on the side of the car, regardless of where the truck really should be located. The 69-BP-30-3 RPO doors should be 10'1" in from the end of the car. The GGD car has the RPO door 7'6" in from the end, off by about 30" (2.5ft). The windows in the baggage section are also obviously not correctly placed on the GGD model to represent this class car.

So it's pretty clear that the GGD model is not a 69-BP-30-3, so what else might it be closest to? Let's have a look at the other classes of 70ft RPO-Baggage cars that SP owned.

In my original 'preview thoughts' blog, the photos shown by GGD suggested a 70-BP-30 rebuild car, let's see how it compares to the Soho model, which matches very closely with the prototype on door and window spacing.

GGD SP 5196 & Soho SP 5148 (70-BP-30 Rebuild) squared against left end.

Ok, the GGD car is not a 70-BP-30 rebuilt class. The unrebuilt 70-BP-30 class cars were 70-BP-15-3s, which looked like 70-BP-30-1s as shown below with the Soho model of SP 5130.

GGD SP 5196 & Soho SP 5130 (70-BP-30-1) also squared to the left end.

The next option is a 70-BP-30-2/3 class car. For my comparison here I'm using a kitbashed SC&F 69-BP-30-2/3 which has been rebuilt as as 70-BP-30-2 class SP 5124, which I've covered before to some extent. The doors and windows have been positioned according to the SPH&TS Vol.3 diagrams.

GGD SP 5196 & Kitbashed SC&F 70-BP-30-2 SP 5124 (in Daylight Colors)

So what is the GGD 70ft RPO-Baggage closest to?

The photo above with the SP 5124 is about as close as I can find for an SP 30ft Apartment RPO prototype plan that fits the general layout of windows and doors for the GGD model. The GGD car is 5'8" shorter than the plan drawings show for 70-BP-30-2/3 cars. Most of that length difference is in the center section (15.66"), the 7'0" baggage door to the Baggage window (13.4"), with a small amount at the RPO end to RPO door (8.6"), and the balance at the Baggage window to end (10").

Enough Searching - Here's the Prototype

Sunset Models' 3rd Rail O-scale model of a "70ft RPO"

From what I've been able to tell Sunset Models/Golden Gate Depot started with their O-scale model from a few years back. The GGD Model is a shortened version of a generic "Harriman" Style RPO-Baggage car. --- This should be no surprise I guess, Golden Gate Depot confirmed by email in Dec 2017 that they're copying their previous "shorty" offerings from O-scale.

GGD SP 5196 - HO version

Also of note is the trucks are moved towards the center of the car, which will generally improve the operations on tighter curves.

Golden Gate Depot car with truck moved away from car end.

The prototype cars had a truck wheel base of 11ft, which GGD's model captures correctly. The truck centers should be 8ft in from the endsills of the car, on the model they are 10.5ft in from the end of the car. Many model manufactures move the trucks inward. Model Die Casting (Now Athearn) Harriman cars have this same change on their 60ft baggage cars. On these 70ft prototype cars the outer wheelset is very close to the end of the car and would cause some additional challenges for the manufacturer to address for tight curve operation with the coupler box.

GGD SP 5196 - 3/4 end view - No rivets?

One of the major omissions I almost immediately noticed upon removing the car from the box and packaging was the lack of vertical rivet rows at the internal structural members. I'm not sure why the rivets were overlooked in this version of the car. The rivets would be a pain to add, but possible with Archer Rivets.

Golden Gate Depot SP 5196 - Right side view.

At 64'4" it's between the 60ft and 69/70ft cars that SP owned. It will work as a stand-in for small layouts where 'shorty' cars are desired to keep a 'Pike-Size' train from overwhelming the layout, passenger station, staging, etc.

Lighting

Golden Gate Depot' lighting for the SP 5196.

The lighting seems to be about twice as bright on these cars as the MTH Daylight Cars I had around the shop for easiest comparison. Compared to the lighting I've been doing on my other projects, this is about 4-8 times too bright for my tastes, but then it seems I like my bulbs dimmer than 'normal'.

Golden Gate Depot SP 5196 RPO section lit. - This is as good of a photo as I could get of the 'interior'.

The RPO cars are one place where the prototype would have been using the brightest light bulbs it could find, to make sorting of the mail easier. I'm not sure how brightly lit the baggage section would have been. Probably only the 'working' baggage sections with a Train Baggage Man or REA Agent would have been all lit up all night. A car hauling Storage Mail, I'm sure would have been dimly lit, if at all.

I tried to get a photo showing the interior in the RPO section, but the thick glass combined with the 'safety-security bars' which should be there made it impossible for me to see the quality of the interior in the car, which I've done on other RPOs I've worked on. Again, I didn't feel I should try to open any of these sample cars, which have to be returned to Golden Gate Depot.

Conclusions for the GGD 70ft Baggage & 70ft RPO

If they suit your small railroad needs because of the tight radius, I could see some merit for these cars finding homes within the "Shorty" pool of models on the market, which include the Athearn "bluebox" HW and LW passenger cars which are only about 70ft instead of 80-85ft long, but I don't see these head-end cars being able to fit happily into a mixed train of brass, resin and scale plastic HO-scale passenger consists without being singled out as incorrect in length immediately.

The underweight issue of the cars only weighing 4.5 ounces is a lingering concern, as is the design of the sprung extending draftgear that forces the coupler off-center when under heavy draft loading. I'm not sure that will work on trains of more than maybe 6 cars climbing a 2% grade.

As most of the regular readers of this blog know, I'm not one to shy away from slicing up a car body to make something better or more accurate from it. Unfortunately, I don't see these GGD 70ft Baggages and RPOs as a starting point for anything useful for the prototype scale modeler because of all the 'rubber-banding' of the dimensions of the doors, windows and blank wall sections, combined with the lack of rivet details and roof 'weld beads', not rivets, which makes this almost more work than scratch building. With the MSRP of $89.95, I can't even really justify these to salvage parts off of for other projects.

Overview of All Six Cars from Golden Gate Depot

Golden Gate Depot SP 1964, 60ft Coach behind a Sunset Models 160-C brass tender.

Overall, I'm disappointed in these models. I'd hoped they'd be so much more, but it would seem the 'tin-plate' origins that bore these cars could not be shed.

Grading

First, an overall issue with all of the models, and I don't know what more to say about the roofs other than, "why?" The research for the roof construction has been around since the SPH&TS Passenger Car book series came out over 10 years ago. Golden Gate Depot really dropped the ball on that one. - Any 'extra credit' that the cars would get for having the other roof detail is pretty much mute, because it will all have to come off during a kitbash to fix the roof joints.

The Coaches probably get by with a "C" grade... they could probably get by running with rebuilt Soho brass cars, but the thick windows and the roofs seams really detract from the scale look of the car.

The Business Car probably gets a "D" also because of the same issues as the coach, combined with the car still having a pseudo-coach interior which a "Business Car" shouldn't have.

The ADL gets a "D" mark because of the mistakes in the tooling with the isle side window being full height. This is something that could have been very easily checked before finalizing the design. It is clear that Golden Gate Depot did not check with any of the 'True Experts' ** in SP passenger cars before proceeding past the point-of-no-return with this project.

Both the Baggage and RPO get "F-minus" marks because of the incorrect length, which was obviously a design 'choice' by Golden Gate Depot. Which is really too bad, as I was hoping for more good head-end cars for our mail and passenger trains!

** I do not consider myself to be one of these "True Experts in SP passenger cars", because I'm not a source for primary information. That is to say, other than what I've read and researched in the books that I've listed to measure these models by I don't have any extra resources than the serious modeler of the SP passenger equipment of 2012-2017+ should have.

Jason Hill

Sunday, December 31, 2017

Review - Golden Gate Depot (Part 4) - 70 Baggage & RPO